The University of Texas at Austin

Law in Popular Culture collection

THE LIFE AND TRIAL OF FRANK JAMES

SIXTH DAY'S TRIAL

     Sam T. Brosius testified:  I live at Gallatin; have lived here for the
last two years. I am a lawyer by profession. I was on the train that
was robbed at Winston. We were about on time at Winston. There
was a commotion on the front platform of our car, and two men com-
menced firing, as I thought at the time, directly through the car. As
the two men came in they called out, "hold up" or "show up," and I
looked squarely into the face of the smaller of the two men to see that
he noticed me; I held up my hands. As soon as the shooting com-
menced I saw that the conductor was hit. The two men continued to
advance through the car till the larger of the two came up and nearly
passed, when the conductor commenced sinking.  He caught him, and
the other man then came up on the other side. They hustled the con-
ductor out on the platform, then came back, and passed me again, go-
ing out at the front end of the car. There was firing on the outside after
they passed out. The larger man was full-faced, with beard all over
his face, and would weigh 180 to 200 pounds. He was perhaps a full
half-head taller than the conductor.  I do not think the defendant is
the man.
     Cross-examined:  Think I was erect a full half minute of the time
during which the men were in the car. I noticed that the bullets all
hit in the ceiling. The big man did not have on a duster. I could not
swear to a stitch of clothing that either of the two men had on. The
smaller man was dark-complexioned and had whiskers three or four
inches long. Plenty of people have heard me tell about what I saw.
They would tell me I was too scared to notice anything, and I would
assent to that to avoid further inquiry.  I don't remember telling parties
who came to me after the robbery for a description of the robbers that
I could not describe them.  Believe I told somebody that the muzzle of
the robber's revolver looked pretty large and that I thought it was an
eight-inch navy revolver.  I did not tell Mr. T. B. Gates, the day after
the robbery, that I could not recognize either of the men, and that I was
under the seat. I don't believe I could recognize either of the robbers
right now if he was brought into the court and placed before me. If
any citizen ever said that I told him that I was under the seat, he
lied.
     Re-direct:  I don't remember a conversation with Mr. Eli Dennis in
which I stated that the shooting was done so quick and there was such
confusion that I couldn't tell how the men looked or anything about it.
I don't remember telling Mr. Robert L. Tomlin on the first of August
after the robbery, that one of the robbers looked as though he was fif-
teen feet high, and that I was so excited I couldn't tell how the men
looked at all. If I had such a conversation I made the statements to


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avoid inquiry, as so many people were asking me about it.  I did not
tell my law partner, Mr. Gillingham, in the presence of C. L. Ewing
and A. Ballinger, that I was so badly excited I could not remember
anything as to how these men looked.  When I described them before
it was as I did to-day--that they both had whiskers all over their faces.
     Re-cross-examination:  I am certain the defendant is not one of the
inen I saw on the train.
     Re-direct: I went to Nashville with the following note from the de-
fendant:

     Mr. Brosius, go to see Mr. Clint. Cantwell by all means. He lives in
sight of the Jeff Hyde property. Remember me kindly to all the
family.                              Respectfully,
     (Signed)                      B. J. WOODSON
     May 3, 1883.

     I did not go to Nashville to get testimony to support an alibi.  Did
:not see the accused until three weeks after my return.  I am not in-
terested in this trial. If the defendant is guilty I want him punished.
     Fletcher W. Horn testified:  Live in Nashville, Tenn. I am now 
connected with the detective force of that city. I know B. J. Wood-
son.  I believe I got acquainted with him in 1877.  I first formed his
acquaintance in the summer of 1877, and last saw him in March, 1881.
He resided most of the time in the White's Creek settlement. He was
either farming or hauling logs for the Indiana Lumber Company. Then
I saw him as often as once a week.  Saw him last in Nashville, about
the 26th of March, the time that Bill Ryan was arrested. When I
knew him he wore sandy whiskers, short on the sides, and fuller on the
chin, say four or five inches long.  He was a hard-working man, who
conducted himself as a gentleman. His associates were men of stand-
ing and position.  I have seen Dick Liddell there in 1879 or 1880.  I
knew him as Smith.  Met him in Bosse's saloon at Nashville.  Never
saw Liddell and the defendant together. The next time I was intro-
duced to him by Squire Adams, on the corner of Dedrick and Cherry
streets, as Dick Liddell. This was after be had been in Alabama. I
knew Jesse James as J. B. Howard.  Remember his buying a blooded
horse in partnership with Taylor, the blacksmith.  Afterward be bought
the horse "J'im Malone." He owned the horse "Jim Scott."  In 1877
I saw Howard and Woodson together once or twice in the pool-room.
Believe I knew Jim Cummings, but am not positive.  Did not know
the Hites.  Never saw B. J. Woodson in company with Liddell or
Cummings. Never saw Liddell and defendant together. I saw very
little of Liddell, and that only by accident. Was subpenaed here for
the State. Was present in June on transportation furnished me by
Squire Earthman.
     Cross-examined:  Did not know Woodson and Howard were the
James Brothers, or I would have tried to take them.
     As far as I know, Dick Liddell deported himself well while in Nash-
ville. The defendant has since alluded to me as a "Falstaff."  Never
saw any of the men I have spoken of in Nashville.  After the arrest of
Bill Ryan, I went with Mr. Sloan to Mrs. Hite's, and sat round while he
asked questions. Mr. Sloan professed at that time to be attorney for
Frank James. I wrote a letter to Thomas Furlong, in St. Louis, asking
transportation for Mr. Sloan as a witness for the State; also for Mr.
Moffatt, Wm. Earthman, Mrs. Hite and myself.  I made this request
for transportation for Mr. Sloan after I knew he was attorney for the
accused. Mr. Sloan did not request me to get him transportation.
      Re-direct:  The letter is dated July 29, 1883. As far as I saw, Liddell
conducted himself as a gentleman, though I didn't see him as frequent-
ly as I did the defendant.
     Raymond B. Sloan testified:  Am an attorney-at law. I live in Nash-
ville.  I knew the defendant by the name of Woodson some time
during the winter of 1876-77.  That winter I discovered he was living
in the old Felix Smith house, that had never had a light in it since the
war.  I have crossed the ferry with him, and seen him driving a four
horse team or sometimes mules.  I had no intimate personal acquaint-
ance with him.  I last saw him in Nashville, March 26, 1881. Once
that day I saw him at Jonas Taylor's blacksmith shop, and then again
near the Louisville depot.  He had light sandy whiskers all over his
face, short on cheeks and longer on the chin, and a mustache. I don't
think he showed evidence of shaving any part of his face. He was
dressed in a light-colored coat, rawhide boots, pants within his boots,
and a soft black Derby hat. I remember seeing the defendant after
that. I once was a witness in the various continuances and hearings
.
13b      
of an assault and batten case. I never missed hi [text missing]
after March 26, 1881.
     Cross-examined:  I remember telling you in the Max [text missing].
Nashville, that I thought I was the last man in Nashville who ha ["  "]
Frank James. That I saw him on horseback shaking hands with a
man, and saying, "Good-bye. I may never see you again." I did not
know that from February 5 to March 26, 1881, Woodson or James was
not doing anything or that he was living in Nashville with Jesse James.
I went up to Mrs. Hite's as attorney for Frank James, and reduced her
statement to writing.  I knew Horn was a witness for the State.  Mrs.
Hite didn't sign it; and Horn signed.a statement that she acknowledged
it to be true. ! took Horn along, because I considered it would save me
a trip to Gallatin if he came here.  He could contradict Mrs. Hite if she
made a contrary statement. I remember telling you at the Maxwell
that perhaps you had better see a man named Sullivan, who pretended
to know a great deal about this matter. I was Frank James' attorney
at the time.  I remember observing to you that the papers said I was
Frank James' legal attorney before I knew it myself.
     Re-direct:  I was engaged as the defendant's local attorney August 8,
and saw Mrs. Hite on August 13. Think I saw Mr. Wallace at the
Maxwell a day or two after, say about Auggust 17.
     Miss Missouri Montgomery testified:  I live a mile and a half east of
Winston. Am a daughter of the last witness. I remember the night
of the Winston robbery, and remember two parties coming to our house
that evening about six o'clock on horseback. Tbey remained there
half an hour, I suppose, and got their suppers at the end of the house
in the open air.  I don't think I saw the defendant there.  I wouldn't
say positively.  I don't think he resembles either of them in the least.
     Cross-examined:  The older of the two, had whiskers all over his face
of a brown color. He was a rather heavy set man, and wore dark
brown clothes.  I never saw Jesse James. The other man was tall and
very slim; had light hair and no whiskers, except a little on each side.
Neither of them had a large blaze-faced sorrel horse.
     John L. Dean testified:  Am a farmer, and live seven miles southwest
of here. I know Jonas Potts. I remember a conversation with him
at his shop November 20, 1882.  He said he had been to Independence
to see Frank James, and that he had never seen him before. I re-
member on another day that two men came up to Potts' shop in a car-
riage and wanted to get a neck-yoke fixed, and that Potts left the
shop, and when he came back was somewhat excited and said they
were the men he had shod horses for before the Winston robbery. The
larger of the two men was a low, heavy-set, dark-complexioned man.
with heavy whiskers. The other was about my size, with fair complex-
ion and no beard at all.
     Cross-examined:  I told Mr. Rush what I knew about this matter. I
don't remember talking to Mr. Rush about this case at Winston in
April or May last. I don't think Potts was in liquor when I talked to
him.
     Marion Dancan testified:  I am a farmer and live about three and a
half miles southeast of Winston. I know Jonas Potts. I remember
conversing with him about Jesse James along in the fore-part of the
winter of 1882-3. I don't remember any conversation with him before
that. Remember Potts' saying to me that Jesse James was at his
shop: that he had seen his picture at Winston, and he was the very
man he had shod a horse for.
     Cross-examined:  Mr. Potts had been to town that evening and was
pretty boozy in that conversation.
     Gus A. Chapman testified:  Know Mr. Potts. I remember him say-
ing to me after his return from Gallatin Jail, where he had seen the
defendant, that he didn't know if he had ever seen him before and could
not tell.
     Wm. E. Ray testified: I know Frank Wolfenberger. I saw him in


14a
[text missing] James had been brought here. Did not hear him
["  "] think he would be able to recognize him.
["  "] defense offered in evidence the record of the trial and con-
viction of Dick Liddell for horse-stealing in Vernon County in 1874,
["  "]ch after objection was admitted to be read to the jury. Recess till
1:30 p. m.
     Joseph A. Shelby, usually alluded to as  "Gen. Joe Shelby," was the
first witness called after recess. He testified as follows:
     By Mr. Phillips:  I have for .thirty-four years resided in Lafayette
County. I live nine miles from Lexington and nearer Page City.  I
remember Jesse James, Dick Liddell, Bill Ryan and Jim Cummings
coming to my place in November, 1880.  I was spreading hemp at the
time, working some twelve or fifteen men, and when I returned home
that evening I found four men with horses in my yard. Jesse James
was there. Young Cummings I knew before, and this man Liddell
passed as Mr. Black at that time. In the morning I had a conversa-
tion with Jesse James in the presence of Dick Liddell, in which I said
that.a couple of young men had been arrested for supposed complicity
with the alleged bank robbery at Conoordia, and that I didn't think
they had anything to do with. it; and I asked Jesse James if he knew
anything about that affair to tell me, and he said, pointing to Dick
Liddell, "There is the man that hit the Dutch Cashier over the head."
     I remember in the month of November, 1881, meeting Liddell and 
Jesse James in my lane, and when I asked Jesse who was ahead of
them he replied, Jim Cummings and Hite. I remember meeting Jesse
James and Liddell again in the fall of 1881, and of asking. Jesse where
Frank was, and of his announcement that Frank's health was such that
he had been South for years, and that when I asked the same ques-
tion of Liddell he announced that he had not seen him for two years.  I
reckon I know Cummings better than any man except the Fords and
his own people. I knew him in the army and since the war. He has
been at my house a dozen times. He was with me in the Confederate
army. I have not seen Frank James since 1872. I believe he sits right
there now. With the permission of the Court can I be tolerated to
shake hands with an old soldier?
     The Court. No, sir, not now.
     Witness. I did not see him in jail. I have not seen him since 1872.
1 am correct about it, sir, when I say that the four parties to whom I
have alluded by name did not include Frank James, who was not with
them. With regard to the arrival of Mrs. Frank James at Page City
in the spring of 1881, I have this to say. It seems a lady arrived at
Page City. I cannot talk dates, like any other farmer, and Mrs. Scott,
a widow woman, whose husband was Captain of the 3d Louisiana, and
who died at Wilson's Creek, sent her son over for me, and stated there
was a lady there who wanted to see me.
     I went at once. Mrs. James said to me: "I am in distress. This
man Liddell and others are committing depredations in the South, and
they are holding my husband amenable for it, as he has been charged
with being connected with them. I have come over on purpose to ask
you to intercede with the Governor." I told her there was no necessity
for that, and no hope of success. I told her further that Governor
Woodson had talked to me at the Planters' House. For Hardin  I had
no respect at all. She wanted me to interfere in her husband's hehalf
with the Governor. I told her it was folly to do so, and advised her to
go home to her father. I think I remained half an hour talking to her.
She remained at Mrs. Scott's all night. She didn't stop at my house.
She could have stopped there if she had desired. As to the sewing
machine, I don't know what time the sewing-machine arrived there.
She simply gave Mr. Birch, the agent at the depot, directions for ship-
ping it, and I don't know where she directed it to be shipped at all.  I
was only assisting a woman in distress, and if she had been Dennison's
wife, the most ohnoxious man in the country  ----- "
     Here the Court stopped the witness short with a severe reprimand.
The fact was, and it was rapidly becoming patent to everybody in the
court-room, that Mr. Shelby was drunk. A sample of this testimony
will be given verbatim a little further on.
     Continuing, the witness said:  Mrs. James left orders with the agent
for the shipment of the sewing-machine. She was a lone woman, with
a little child, and crying, and any man who would have faltered in giv-
ing suggestion or aid ought to he ashamed.of himself.  I haidknown
Frank James since 1862. I know him now, the first time I have seen
him for twelve years. I got acquainted with him in our army.
     Cross-examined--By Mr. Wallace: This sewing-machine you didn't
see at all?
 
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     "Nobody knows better than yourself that I didn't see it."
     The Court. Answer the question in a straightforward manner.
     Witness. I did not.
     "You didn't have anything to do with it at all?"
     " Nothing in the world."
     "Sir, you are just as sure of that as you are of anything else?"
     "Yes, and I am just as sure of anything else."
     To the Court:  "I would like to know if the Judge is going to per-
mit a lawyer to insult an unarmed man, who is a witness in this case?"
     The Court. Every witness comes in here unarmed, sir.
     By Mr. Wallace. What are your initials?
     " If you are desirous of knowing, go to this bank here and you will
find out."
     The Court. Answer his question.
     Witness. Joe 0. Shelby is my name.
     " Then your initials would be J. 0. S."
     "Go to the banks in this town and you will find it Joe 0. S."
    " Look at the way-bill and see if that has ' J. 0. S.' as the consignor
of that sewing-machine? There may be a great many J. 0. S.'s, who
in that section have those initials beside you."
     "You had better go and inquire."
     The Court. I won't leave any more nonsense of that kind. You will
have to answer questions as they are put.
     Witness (to Court). You are not protecting me at all.
     Mr. Phillips. I simply suggest to the Court that under the circum-
stances this examination had perhaps better be deferred.
     Witness. Not at all. Better let it go on. Now is the time for it to
go on.
     The Court (to witness). "General Shelby, you are a man that I re-
spect and a man with a State-wide reputation as a gentleman. We did
not expect such demeanor in this court-room. I must admonish you
that I cannot permit this to go on any further."
     Witness. "I want to know from the Court, if, after having said what
he (Mr. Wallace).has, he is to charge me with receiving a bill of lading
as J. O. S."
     To this there was no reply.
     Mr. Wallace. "I ask you if when Mrs. Frank James came there
with a sewing-machine to be shipped to Mrs. B. J. Woodson, you did
not yourself become the consignor and ship it thence to Independence
for the purpose of keeping any one else from getting track of it?"
     "No, sir, I did not:"
     " I ask you if this ' J. O. S.' doesn't indicate that?"
     " No, sir, not at all. She arrived there as I related. I gave her a
note to Mr. Russell, agent of the Missouri Pacific at Independence, to
take it and send her up to Independence."
     But it would be wearisome to follow the witness word for word. He
testified further:  I saw Dick Liddell. I was not brought into court to
see if he was the man; neither you nor anybody else can bring me in any-
where. Nobody knows better than yourself that I was not brought in
to look at Mr. Liddell. The man I saw was Mr. Black, alias Liddell, the
thief.
    The Court. I want no more epithets of that kind in the court-room
     Witness. Very good, Judge. He has forced it on me. If I am
guilty of a misdemeanor, correct me or punish.me for it.
     The Court. I shall do It.
     Mr. Wallace. You saw Liddell down at Capt. Ballinger's house, af-
terwards, didn't you? 
     "You don't propose to invade the household of Capt. Ballinger, a
soldier of the Federal army?"
     " It is very wrong for a rebel soldier to make remarks about what
occurred in a Federal soldier's home?"
     Mr. .Wallace. The war is over.
     Witness. I don't like to allude to a visit to a gentleman's home
That is indelicate and improper.
     "Did yon see Liddell there?"
     "I did, sir. I saw him like a viper, curled up in a rocking-chair."
     "You saw him again at the hotel the other night, or was that a
drummer that you took for him?"
     "No, sir; by no means."
     "Were you not about to kill the drummer, thinking he was Dick
Liddell?"
     "I have lived thirty-four years in this State and never killed anybody."
     "Answer the question."


15a
     "I was not."
     "This gentleman was seated at the table opposite to me, and he
dropped his knife and fork and looked at me. I have his card in my
pocket. He is a Michigan man, not one of your people at all, but a
better man than yourself for instance. He was staring at me. I am
not in the habit of staring at men on the street, especially ladies any-
way, and I must have made some casual remark about it."
     "Did you get your pistol out?"
     "No, sirl" .
     "Didn't the Marshal of Lexington see you draw your pistol?"
     "No, sir; he is a liar, or anybody else, if he says so."
     The Court. I want no more such remarks as that, Gen. Shelby, or
I will fine you $50.
     In this way the testimony proceeded. Witness testified that Dick
Liddell had partaken of his meals, and fed his corn to Liddell's horse.
That was in 1880, and Jesse James was with him and Cummings and
Ryan. Did not know that Jesse James was wanted by the officers.
Knew it was asserted that he had been guilty of misdemeanors. Never
told any officers where they could find him, but did once notify the
Chicago and Alton and Missouri Pacific people that if they were under
the apprehension that George Sheppard had killed him they were being
misled; and that he was not dead. The last time Jesse was at my
house was at Page City, in the fall of 1881, where I saw Frank James
in 1872, which is the last time I saw him. He was bleeding at the
lungs, and Dr. Orear was attending him. I don't know that he was an
outlaw then, or that he is one to-day. I don't know that he was then
fleeing from the officers.
     He was at my house some sixty or eighty days that time, and every-
body knew it. When the four men came to my house, as I have already
stated, I told them I could only accommodate two of them for the
night. Bill Ryan and Jesse James stayed all night with me. The
others stopped with a man from Illinois named Graham, who had been
in the Federal army. I am certain that Ryan was not pointed out to
me as the man who hit the Dutch cashier over the head.
     As witness started to leave the court room he asked permission to go
over and shake hands with the defendant. This the Court refused,
saying
     " You can call on him some other time." Whereupon Shelby nodded
to the accused as be walked out, and said:
     "God bless you, old fellow."
     Frank Tutt testified:  I reside at Kansas City. Prior to living there
I lived at Lexington, Mo. I am a coal-oil inspector.  I know Dick
Liddell.  I remember meeting him in front of Gardner's saloon at Kan-
sas City just after the Ford boys had been pardoned, after the trial at
St. Joe. Mr. James M. Crowder was present at the time. On that
occasion Liddell, when asked where Frank James was, said he didn't
know the whereabouts of Frank, and that he and Jesse didn't get along
well together, and he hadn't seen him for years.
     Cross-examined:  I had been pursuing the James boys for a couple
of months, but never caught any of them.
     James S. Demastus testified for the defense, as follows:  I reside in
Richmond, Mo.; am a Justice of the Peace there. I remember the tes-
timony of Mrs. Bolton at the Wood Hite inquest. I understood her to
testify that she had not seen Frank James for about two years, and
then at her father's. She was then living at the Harbison Place, and
had been there about two years.
     Cross-examined:  She named Wood Hite, Dick Liddell, Clarence Hite
and Jesse James as members of the gang. The answer as to how long
since she had seen Frank James was given in an examination conducted
by Mr. Farris, a juror, after the formal examination, and as much for
curiosity as anything else.
     Here Mr. Phillips said that Gen. Shelby was at the door, and desired
to make a statement. The Court's permission being given, Gen. Shelby
said
     "Before I say any thing more I desire to say that if anything I said
offended the dignity of the Court yesterday, I regret it exceedingly. As
to other parties, I have no regrets to make."
     Here ensued a running colloquy between witness and the Court, in
which the Court severely censured witness for coming into court yes-
terday in a condition unfit to testify, and fined him for that offense $10,
which the witness paid and left the court.
     James C. Mason testified: I reside in Ray County; remember Cap-
tain Ford stating to me that he didn't think Frank James was at Win-
ston or Blue Cut; that he had settled down and left the boys; remem-
 
15b      
ber also a conversation with Mrs. Bolton, when she said that Frank
James was trying to lead an honest life, and was a different man from
Jesse; that Frank would go away and try to settle down, when Jesse
would come to live with him, and the detectives would come and be
would have to leave.
     Here a wrangle came up over a question said to have been pro-
pounded to little Willie Bolton by the defense. A reference to the of-
ficial report showed no such question had been asked, whereupon Willie
Bolton was recalled in order that the defense might bring their im-
peachment battery to bear.
     W. Bolton being recalled denied ever telling James C. Mason shortly
after Jesse James' death that he had never seen Frank James, or that
the others had been at his mother's house, and had said that Frank
James had quit them. He didn't remember ever telling Mason any-
thing at all about the outlaws.
     James C. Mason, resuming the stand, testified that Willie Bolton had
made at the time and place stated the statement whidh he just now de-
nied having made.
     Annanias Duval testified:  I live in Ray County and know Mr. J. T.
Ford. I know all of the family. Know Willie Bolton. Had a con-
versation with John T. Ford, in which he said he never saw and didn't
know Frank James, and did not know that he was anywhere in this
country.
     Cross-examined:  Never heard the Fords say thet any of the gang
were there.
     W. D. Rice testified:  I reside three miles south of Richmond, Mo.,
and half a mile from J. T. Ford. I remember a conversation with
Willie Bolton a day or two after the Wood Hite inquest, in which he
said he had told a story before the.Coroner's Jury, and that his mother
had made him do it.
     Cross-examined:  Believe this was before Frank James had given
himself up.
     James Duval, recalled for the State, testified in answer to Mr. Wal-
lace:  The horse my brother lost was a sorrel. We got him from Mr.
Sawyer, and I found him in February, 1883, in charge of Bob Hall, at
Samuels' Station, in Nelson County, Ky. The horse was lost Novem-
ber 10, 1880.
     John T. Samuels, called for the defense, testified:  I am a farmer. I
am a half brother to defendant.  I live three miles northeast of Kear-
ney with Mrs. Samuels. Have lived there with her twenty-two years
continuously. It was in 1876 that I last saw the defendant before the
Winston robbery: He was married then. Last saw him in January
last. Never saw him from 1876 up to that time. I was at home in the
summer of 1881. Was not absent at any time during that summer.
Saw Jesse James during that summer about the first of May at my
mother's. He was in company with Dick Liddell. He told me he
came from Kentucky. My mother and father were home when Dick
and Jesse arrived. I heard my mother ask Jesse where was Frank,
and he replied he had left him in Kentucky, and that he was in bad
health and was talking of going South. She then asked Liddell the
same question and received a similar answer.  Jesse James was at
our house two or three months that summer off and on. I last saw
him there about the last of July or first of August that summer. Dur-
ing that time I saw at our house Dick Liddell, Clarence and Wood Hite,
and Charley Ford, and no one else. The James boys and Wood Hite
are cousins.
     Continuing, the witness said:  Wood Hite was rather tall, with high
forehead, long nose, fair complexion, and beard on his face about one
and a half inches long, also a mustache. Jesse was a large man, full
faced, with beard all over his face--a sandy beard, which I don't think
was darker than Wood Hite's. Clarence was square built, delicate, and
fair complexioned, with bad front teeth, so decayed that they would be
quickly noticed. There was a striking family resemblance between
Frank James and Wood Hite. I saw Jim Cummings at my mother's
house that summer in the last of June, 1881.  His sister lives two and
a half miles from my mother's. I next saw him July 1 at the same
place. He came there the first time with Jesse and Dick Liddell. He
was by himself the last time. These parties were there several times
that summer. I did not know of my own knowledge where the defend-
ant was that summer. Cummings was rather tall and slim, with light
hair--as tall as Frank James, and about 36 years old. Last saw him
in July, 1881.
     Cross-examined: I heard that all these men were outlaws. Saw in
the papers that they had robbed trains and killed. men. They came


16a
and went armed. We fed Dick Liddell, though not related to him or 
Cummings. I knew that Cummings was charged with horse-stealing 
in Clay County. Never told of his presence there.  Kept his presence 
here and that of the others a secret.  In 1876 I saw him in company
with Jesse and their two wives. Saw him in 1876 and 1874. When I
first saw Jim Cummings in 1881 he was on the porch of Mrs. Samuels.
The other time he came to my window at night. I tended a crop that
summer. Charley Ford first carne there in July, 1881.
     He was there also immediately before the Blue Cut robbery, when
they left in a wagon, to which Charley Ford's black pony and another
horse was hitched. I was there then. The other horse was Dick Lid-
dell's.  I don't remember whether that wagon left in July or August.
Think Charley Ford's first visit was in.the last of July. He was never 
here until after the Winston robbery. First saw Jim Cummings there
the last of June.  First told Mr. Johnson from this stand that Cummings
was there in 1881.  I talked to Messrs. Johnson and Phillips, of the
defense, day before yesterday.  Mr. Phillips asked me about Jim Cum-
ings.  I had also told Mr. Garner, of the defense, about Cummings.
I have  heard Wood Hite called Father Grimes because of his stoop
shoulders and old ways. He had whiskers all over his face--dark
whiskers, darker than Jesse's.  Jim Cummings had a complexion per-
haps as red as mine, with little eyes. I don't know anything about his
education.  He could carry on a conversation as well as some other 
men. Never heard him quote any Shakspeare. There was left in the
wagon Dick Liddell, Charley Ford, Clarence Hite, Wood Hite and Jesse
James. There were not six men, and the sixth man was not Frank
James, as far as I know.  They were armed with revolvers. They had
guns at the house, two Winchesters and a shotgun. Liddell had a
shotgun and Jesse a Winchester. I don't know whether there was a
suit of woman's clothes there. They got a woman's dress from my
mother.  I don't know what it was for.
     Mrs. Zerelda Samuels, a gray-haired lady of 55, with a shortened 
right arm, and dressed in black, testified:  I have lived for forty years
in Clay County.  I am the mother of Jesse and Frank James. Frank 
was 40 years old last January.  I have lived three miles from Kearney.
I have other children--Mrs. Palmer, Mrs. Nicholson, Mrs. Hall and
John T. Samuels. Jesse was killed two years ago next April (this
with tears). I was home during the summer of 1881. Jesse was at
my house during 1881.  He came there either in May or June--in May,
I think. Before that he had not been home for some time. The last time
he came Jim Cummings and Dick Liddell were with him--no, only Dick
Liddell. I asked Jesse where "Buck," or Frank was, and he said he
had left him in Kentucky in bad health. I said, "Son, you know he is
dead," and I turned to Liddell and he said they had left him in Ken-
tucky. They left my house after the Winston robbery.  I don't know
the time. During that summer the parties that met at my house were
Charley Ford, Dick Liddell, Clarence and Wood Hite and Jesse James.
Mr son Frank was not there that summer.  I have not seen Frank for
seven years till I saw him at Independence. The last time before that
I saw him was when Mr. Broome was Sheriff of Clay County, and they
came to my house and shot at him. I saw Jim Cummings that sum-
mer.  His relations live three or four miles from my house. One of his
sisters married Bill Ford, uncle of the Ford boys.  Lidell and the
Hites were often at  my house that summer previous to the Winston
robbery.  I. did not know that summer where Frank James was.  I
thought he was dead. I am 55 years old. Was 50 years old when I
lost my hand.
     Cross-examined:  I remember the wagon leaving There were in it
Jesse James, Charley Ford, Wood Hite, Clarence Hite and Dick Liddell.
Jim Cummings was there in June. I didn't see him but that once
Johnny Samuels told me he was there one night at his window. The
party that left in the wagon took food and clothing, and a dress, apron
and bonnet that I furnished, so they could pass off one of the gentle-
men for a lady, so you couldn't catch them.
     Allen H. Palmer testifed:  I live in Wichita County,'Tex. Am a
cattle man. Have lived in Texas twenty years. First lived in Gray-
son County. The last years in Wichita County. I married Frank
James' sister about thirteen years ago. I was not home all the time
of the summer of 1881. I think I left home in May, between the 1st
and 10th. I was down below Fort Worth working on a railroad,
freighting. I had three children then.  I returned about August 1st, or
not far from the lot, When I got home the 1st of August I found
Frank James home with my family.  Idon't know what time he came
there. I could not state how he was dressed at the time. I only
 
16b      
stayed at home but a few days, and I left him there. It was Septem-
ber before I was home any more. When I got back he had gone. I
next saw him yesterday.
     Cross examined:  Wichita Falls is on Wichita River, terminus of the
Fort Worth and Denver. In 1881 there was no road nearer than Gaines-
ville. In 1881 I lived in Clay County, eighteen miles northwest of
Henrietta, on a ranch. My closest neighbor was a widow lady named
Bogar, about half a mile off. She visited my family occasionally.
She had two daughters and a son, a young man grown, who was at-
tending to a bunch of cattle and visiting at my house.
     Wichita Falls is ten miles from the ranch I had then. A family
named Wicker lived two miles from me. The family consisted of three
boys and one married daughter, and her husband, Beckler. My next
neighbor was six or seven miles off, called Harness, W. T. and I. H.
They are now at Henrietta.  Frank James had a horse when I got to
my place--a dark bay horse. I didn't ask him when he came or where
from. I don't know any Clarence, or Wood Hite, or Dick Liddell. I didn't
ask where he came from or where he was going. I hadn't seen Mrs.
Samuels since 1879, when I was in Kansas City in jail, and she came to
see me. The last time I saw Jesse James was the year of the railroad
strike (1877). In 1881, in the summer, I worked on the roads in Texas 
hauling from Fort Worth.  Hauled on the Missouri Pacific, which was
building there from Fort Worth to Cleburne, and from Cleburne to
Alvaredo. My name was not on any of the rolls, but we were paid in
money every few days. Don't remember who I worked for, or
with, or whom I loaded with. We were working between Cleburne and
Alvaredo, on the Missouri Pacific, I think it was called. Frank White,
at my house, stayed mostly up-stairs. He ate with the family. I think
he was unwell at the time. He said that his lungs were affected.
     Re-direct:  He was talking of surrendering if it could be fixed up in
Missouri. When I was in jail at Kansas City I had been arrested in
Texas for the Glendale robbery.
     Re-cross:  I think it was to Governor Crittenden that he talked of
surrendering.
     The Court at this point took a recess till 1:30 p. m.
     The first witness called after recess was Mrs. Allen H. Palmer, whe
testified: I live at Wichita Falls, Tex.: I am the wife of the last wit-
ness; have been living in Texas about ten years continuously; have
lived in Sherman, Clay, and Wichita Counties;. lived in Wichita County
since last fall; the defendant is my brother; he is older than I am; in
the year 1881 I saw the defendant at my house in Clay County; he
came there in June, in the first part of the month; he spoke of coming
from Tennessee, and of having lived there. My family consists of a
husband and two children. He stayed there till the lst of July. He
was gone and came back again by the lst of August, and was gone off
and on till September. The first time he was gone three or four weeks.
My husband came back the 1st of August. My brother was there at
that time. I don't know where my brother went while he was gone.
He remained in Texas a little over three months. I saw him
off and on. He was there all of  June. He went away the latter part of
June or 1st of July, and was gone until the latter part of July, and
from then off and on until some time in September he was at my house.
I remember talking about him being anxious to have his friends nego-
tiate his surrender to the Governor of Missouri. When he left Texas
he started for California. I didn't then know where his wife was.
Since that I never heard of him until the surrender. During this three
months he was in Texas his health was not very good. While Frank
was there my husband. was home once.  I cannot say for how long--
say four or five days. At that time my husband was working on the
railroad near Fort Worth. He returned August 1st, and Frank was
still there. I heard Frank speak of Jesse; that they got scared and left
where they were living. When they left Tennessee, Frank came to my
house.
     Cross-examined:  Frank got to my house the lst of June. He told
me he came from Tennessee.  Of my own certain knowledge I don't
know where he came from. He went away in June and stayed away
all of July till the latter part. After he came back he stayed off and on
till September. I don't know where he was in July. He finally left in
September.  I couldn't give the date, but it was along in the first of the
month.  I think the negotiations for the surrender were spoken of in
the early portion of his visit. He spoke of friends, but didn't say friends
in Missouri. He said he would like to have his friends negotiate his
surrender, as he would like to be pardoned.  I don't know anything
about Jesse wanting to surrender.  I never saw Dick Liddell till this


17a
week. I know nothin of Clarence or Wood Hite. Frank came to my
house on horseback on a bay horse. He hobbled it and turned it out
on the range. He didn't tell me where he got the horse. He stayed at
my house in all of the three rooms at different times. If any one came
he would go up-stairs or out of the room. We lived in a remote part of
the country where there are few visitors. We had a few visitors during
the time. Mrs. Bogar was there visiting once. She didn't see Frank
that I know of. When she was there Frank would sometimes be up-
stairs or sometimes down cellar. Mr. Harness, a stock man, now liv-
ing at Henrietta, was also a visitor while Frank was there. He was
originally from Cooper County, Mo. We saw him coming and Frank
went into another room. In speaking of the surrender, he said he
wanted to surrender; wanted a trial and to become a common, peaceable
citizen.
     Question. Wanted a trial for what? For the Winston robbery?
     Answer. No, sir.
     Witness continued:  I don't know of his mentioning the name of
any one who had been negotiating with Governor Crittenden.
     Re-direct:  He told me that he left Tennessee because Bill Ryan had
been captured; that he got frightened; that his health was bad, and he
came to my place to see if it would improve his health, and he wanted
to try and negotiate with the Governor for surrender.
     Bud Harbison testified:  I reside in Richmond, Ray County, Mo. In
coming from Richmond to the Harbison Place, where Mrs. Bolton
lived, the road passes right in front of my house without any fork or
division, till the town is nearly reached. I was home and farming in
1881. Have frequently seen men passing my house on the road. Re-
member meeting a party of two or four at the creek on the road.
Never saw defendant until I saw him in the Court-house yard. Could
not say that I recognized him as one of the many parties passing my
house in the summer of 1881. Saw Dick Liddell or Mr. Anderson at
Mrs. Bolton's in February, 1882. I remember being at the house on
Sunday early in December from 10 to 11 a. m. I talked with Bob and
Wilbur Ford and Mrs. Bolton. I believe I saw nothing and heard noth-
ing unusual that day.
     Cross-examined:  I couldn't identify any one of the four men whom
I met at the creek on the road. I don't pretend to identify Dick Lid-
dell as one of them. Did not recognise Wood Hite as one of them.
I saw him after the exhumation of his body. He might have been
stoop-shouldered. Had short whiskers and a little mustache, and
would weigh 140 or 160 pounds. I don't know whether defendant is
one of the men I saw at the creek or not. I was on the Wood Hite
jury of inquest.  If Mrs. Bolton said anything about Frank James I
don't remember.  I remember telling you that if she said anything
about Frank James being there that he was there in May, though I
could not be positive as to whether she said anything about it or not.
I believe she said that he might have been there twice. She spoke of
him as going by the name of Hall. She was asked about the James
boys, and she said that she knew them, but when or where she had
seen them, or what year I don't remember.
     Samuel Venagle testified:  In 1881 I was working as a carpenter for
Mr. Weston till July. I know where Mrs. Hamilton's is, about a mile
north of Gallatin. I remember the circumstance of the Winston rob-
bery. I remember that Mrs. Hamilton's house was raised after I quit
Mr. Weston, which was a few days before the Winston robbery.
     This testimony was evidently introduced to contradict Liddell where
he speaks of a house in the locality indicated as having two stories, 
he thought, though he couldn't swear to it.
     At this point the defense announced that if they were given fifteen
minutes' recess they could probably get along with one more witness.
The Court ordered the recess asked for.
     At 3 o'clock the defendant, Frank .James, took the stand in his own
behalf, and was duly sworn. The examination was as follows: By 
Mr. Phillips:  "Mr. James, you are the defendant in this case?"
     "Yes."
     "Begin your statement of the history of this case, where the prosecut-
ion began, with the time of your departure from Missouri for Tennessee 
some years ago. Just state when that was ?"
     "That was in the winter of 1876, if I remember it correctly."
     "State where you went and where you stayed."
     "Well, sir, it is quite a route to follow it all round. I ranged across
Southeast Missouri directly into Tennessee, crossing the Mississippi 
River, I think, perhaps about between the 1st and 6th of January, if I 
am not mistaken."
 
17b      
     "State what time you arrived at Nashville."
     "I didn't arrive at Nashville until July, 1876. I think I went directly
then from Nashville out into what is known as the White's Creek neigh-
borhood. The first place I went to there was the widow Harriet Led-
better's, who lives over on White's Creek. In the meantime I rented a
farm, which, however, I could not get possession of until January 1,
1878.  I remained at Mrs. Ledbetter's during that fall. I put in a crop
of wheat and moved there and lived in the place known as the Jesse
Walton place.  I lived on this place one year, that was up to 1878.
Next year I rented a place from Felix Smith, on White's Creek also, but
nearer to White's Creek than the place I have just mentioned.
    " I remained there a year, and made a crop in the meantime--a gen-
eral crop, as farmers raise--corn, oats and wheat. The next year I
lived on what is known as the Jeff Hyde place, on Hyde's Ferry, about
three and a half miles from Nashville.  I remained there a year.
During that year I didn't farm any. I was working for the Indiana
Lumber Company. That I think was in 1879."
     "What kind of work did you do for the Indiana Lumber Company!"
     "I was working in the woods, logging, as the term it, and I work-
ed off and on all that summer at that business, driving a four-mule
team, and over that time, I don't remember just what month, I think
it was in 1880, I moved into Nashville. During that time, as it was
very hard work logging, I got several strains and my health became
impaired, and I found I would have to go at some other business.
Thinking I could not stand working ten hours a day for three years as
I had, I concluded to move into Nashville and go into some other busi-
ness. During that time this gentleman who has been spoken of before,
Mr. Ryan, was captured. Well, of course, I was apprehensive, and not
knowing what sort of a man he was and only having a short acquaint-
ance with him, I concluded that perhaps for the sake of his liberty he
would be willing to sacrifice my life. So I concluded to leave, and did
so."
     "When and where was the first time you met your brother Jesse and
the man Ryan?"
     "My first meeting with my brother Jesse was entirely accidental; I
was farming, as I stated, on the Walton place, and I had gone into the
store of B. S. Rhea & Son, and while I was sampling oats and talking
to one of the clerks, Jesse James walked out of the office, came up to
me and says:   "Why, how do you do?"  I spoke to him; didn't call any
name of course. He was going by; he asked me where I was living, and
I told him; he went out home with me, and told me be was living in
Humphreys County, which is, I suppose, 100 miles west of Nashville,
if I am not mistaken. I am not positive about the distance. He had
been buying grain for this firm of B. S. Rhea and Son. That is where I
first met him.  That, I think, was in the spring of 1878--perhaps in
February or March. We generally sow oats there in February--in the
latter part of February or first of March."
     "Where did you first meet Ryan in Tennessee?"
     "The first time I ever met William Ryan, I think, perhaps, was in
the fall or winter of 1879.  I am not positive as to that date, but it oc-
curs to me now, as well as I recollect it, that it was in 187--no, it
must have been in 1879. I am pretty certain it was."
     "Where did you meet?"
     "I met him at my house. He had returned there with Jesse James,
my brother, I suppose, though I cannot state that of my own knowl-
edge. However, he came there one Sabbath with Jesse James, but his
wife and children were boarding in Nashville at that time. He had
gone to Jesse James'.  Previous to this Dick Liddell had arrived at my
house."
     "What time did he come down there?"
     "What I mentioned about being apprehensive was the second time.
The first time I ever met Dick Liddell in Tennessee was, I think, in 1879.
I am not positive what month. He and Jesse James came in together.
No one was with them when they arrived at my house. Liddell was
there off and on until that fall. He was then making trips to and fro,
but where I have no idea. I never saw Ryan, Jesse James and Liddell
together any great deal in Nashville. When they were out of my sight
my impression is they were together, but of course when they were
out of my sight I could not state what became of them. When I left
Nashville, in consequence of Ryan's arrest, my first purpose was to
protect my life so as to be able to support my family, and secondly to
get shut of those parties who were around me.  I could not prevent it.
Of course I had no control of things, and that was the reason I left
there and went to Logan County, Ky., to George B. Hite's, who had


18a
married a sister of my father's for his first wife. I could not state when
his first wife died. I do not remember the date we arrived there nor
just how long we stayed. I think, however, we arrived in the latter part
of March, or the 1st of April, as well as I recollect the circumstance now.
As to the officers coming there, if my memory serves me right it was
on a Sunday that it was reported there were at Adairsville, one and a
half or two miles from the Hite's place, detectives looking for us, and
they had followed us from Nashville.
     "That Sunday morning three men were noticed coming toward the
house. Our lane ran for quite a distance south of the house past the
farm, and there was a little lane came up directly to the house. Some
one saw them coming from a distance and said:  'Yonder come three
men.'  My brother, being a somewhat excitable man, said: ' No
doubt those are the men that were in Adairsville.'  The detectives, as
they supposed.  I said, ' I reckoned not; that I could not see what any
body could be following us for.'  'Oh, yes,' Dick says, 'you know Jessie
and I borrowed a couple of horses, and I expect these men are from
back down in Nashville.'  I said,  'I guess they won't come here.'  We
went down-stairs, and I said,  'Don't shoot anybody; for heaven's sake,
don't kill anybodyl'  They came down and went I don't know where.
I went into the parlor and looked out of the window to see if they came
up the lane directly in front of the house. I kept looking, but they
didn't come, but went off.  I thought perhaps it was some one going
to church--neighbors, perhaps--so I went back up-stairs. However,
the men went on by, and Wood Hite followed them on a mule, and re-
ported that they had gone in a roundabout way to Adairsville, and
they were the same men that we suspected of being detectives. I could
not state positively whether I remained at Mrs. Hite's ten days or ten
weeks, but it was in the neigborhood of that time.
     The Hite family was composed of George B. Hite, Mrs. Sarah Hite,
her daughter Maud, old Mr. Norris and his wife. That is all who were
there then. Of course, he had other children who were not there at
that time. Wood Hite's name was Woodson Hite. I would suppose
him to be between 33 and 35 years of age. I think I was perhaps 2
years older than he. He was 5 feet 9 1-2 or 10 inches high. Cannot
say whether his eyes were black or gray. His hair was light and his
whiskers darker; rather dark sandy. He was a little stoop-shouldered,
had a large, prominent nose and high forehead, and would weigh
150 pounds whereas I only weigh 140. There was very little
difference in our height. There was a striking family resem-
blance between us. My attention was first called to it the
first time Dick Liddell and Jesse James came to our house. The next
morning after breakfast Jesse looked at me anal says, 'Why, Dick,'
he says, ' he looks like old Father Grimes.'  I said:  'Who is old Father
Grimes?'  He says: ' He is your cousin, Wood Hite,' and Dick laughed
and said: ' Yes; he is.' Clarence Hite was slender. You would call
him a stripling, very loose in his movements, light complexioned, and,
I believe, light-haired, with no whiskers at all. When I saw him in Ken-
tucky he looked just like a green boy. I suppose he would be 5 feet 8
or 9 inches high. From the Hite's we went to Nelson County, Ky., the
county which has Bardstown for its county seat. We first arrived at
Richard Hoskin's; an old gentleman who lived in the ' knobs,' for it is a
very broken country. There I separated from Jesse James and Dick
Liddell, and cannot tell where they went. I know a man in Nelson
County named Robert Hall.
     "I was not at his place in company with Dick Liddell and Jesse James.
There was no agreement entered into between Jesse James, Dick Lid-
dell and myself, or myself with any other parties, to go to Missouri for
the purpose of robbing the express at the Kansas City ferry; but, on
the other hand, I tried to persuade them not to come to Missouri.
Jesse and Dick had been talking of coming to Missouri ever since we
left Nashville. Liddell had left his wife here and seemed very anxious
to get back. I am not certain who was his reputed wife, but I believe
it was Miss Mattie Collins. That is what I heard.  I told Jesse and
Dick not to come to Missouri, because it would endanger the life of our
mother. I said: 'You know already what has been done there. You
know there is no protection for my mother and family in the State of
Missouri, let alone for you, and I would never go there.'  My advice
to Dick Lidell was to go to work somewhere and then he would have
much more money at the end of the year than if he put in his time gal-
loping around the country. But Jesse said they would go anyway. So
I separated from them in Nelson County, Ky. As a matter of fact I
was not at Hall's in connection with Liddell and Jesse James. I re-
mained there perhaps till the 10th or 15th of May, though I don't just
 
18b      
remember the date. I then went to Louisville. Robert Hall took me
in a buggy.
     From there I went to Texas. On the trip from Nashville to Hite's
I rode a horse I got from Dick Liddell in 1879, as well as I can recol-
lect. That is the horse he speaks of having sold to me, and its de-
scription corresponds with that of the horse referred to by the witness
Duval. I gave that horse to Mr. Hall for his services in driving me in
a buggy to Louisville. From Louisville I went to Texas by rail, going
to Memphis over the L. and N. From there I went to Little Rock,
where I think I changed cars and went to Texarkana on the Iron
Mountain. Thence I went to Dallas by a road whose name I don't re-
member. It occurs to me like the International. From Dallas I went
up into Northern Texas, Mrs Palmea[sic] is my sister. I got to her house
about the 1st of June, 1881. I remained there five or six weeks. I
don't remember exactly where I learned of the death of President Gar-
field. I think I heard of it while I was there, and I left my sister's be-
tween that time and the 10th of July. The nearest Post Office to my
sister's place was Henrietta, and that was eighteen miles away. After
leaving my sister's I went into the Indian Nation, and I think I was
gone ten or fifteen days. I went on horseback. My sister's place is
about thirty miles from the line of the Indian Nation, but the way I
went I reckon it was about 120 miles. I know I got down in that
country about the time I heard of the Winston robbery, so I talked
round and went to Denison.
     I cannot state whether I read of the Wisconsin robbery in a paper or
whether somebody told me. After that I went back to my sister's in
Clay County, and remained there through August and a part of Sep-
tember, I left my sister's I am satisfied between the 10th and 15th of
September, 1881. I know as I returned on that trip I heard of the Blue
Cut robbery. When I left Tennessee I gave my wife directions to go
to Gen. Joe Shelby's, in the State of Missouri, and see if there could
be any arrangements made with the Governor for my surrender. If I
could have a fair and impartial trial accorded me I felt perfectly satis-
fied I could be cleared beyond a doubt. I told her if anything could
be done in this behalf to communicate with me in Northern Texas,
otherwise to go to her brother, Samuel Ralston, in California. I think
he resided in Sonora, Tuolumna County. She went there. I didn't do
much in Texas, as I felt the need of rest, for the three and a half years
of hard work in Tennessee had told on my health. I would sit and
read or lounge about the house. I was not engaged in anything while
I was there. When I left my sister's in September I returned to the
neighborhood of Denison and the Chickasaw Nation, and remained
there perhaps two or three weeks. Then I returned to Kentucky,
going by way of the M. K. and T. to St. Louis, and the K. and O. to St.
Louis and on to Samuel's Depot. I received no answers in 1881 to my
petition for leave to surrender.
     "Otherwise my wife would not have gone to California. On my re-
turn to Kentucky my wife met me in Nelson County. She arrived
there some time in the latter part of October, 1881, with one child, now
five years old. From Samuels' Depot we went across to Georgetown,
in Scott County, Ky. There we took the Cincinnati Southern train to
Chattanooga, and stopped at the Stanton House, where I registered as
J. Ed. Warren and wife. From there we went over the E. T. V. and
G. Railway to Bristol. Changed cars there for the Norfolk and North-
western, which carried us to Lynchburg. I remained there a couple of
weeks, detained by the miscarriage of a trunk which I had expressed
from Louisville to Georgetown when I had gone across country in a
buggy. At Lynchburg we stopped at the Arlington on Seventh and
Clark streets, if I am not mistaken. My intention was to go into North
Carolina somewhere, and remain there. I went from Lynchburg over
the Virginia, Midland, to Danville, and then over the Richmond and
Danville to Jonesboro, N. C., where I stopped at the McAdoo House,
registering as before. Then there was a little town called Salem, thirty
or forty miles from Jonesboro, at the foot of the mountains. That
seemed to be a secluded place, and I thought I would go into business
there, as I had experience in mill work, and there were any number of
mills there, but the place seemed full of diphtheria. There was a great
deal of sickness there. They had just been putting in water-pipes,
which a great many people supposed to be the cause of the sickness
So I went back to Jonesboro, the place, by the way. where, I think,
Gen. Joseph E. Johnston surrendered, and I got my family and went
from there to Raleigh, N. C. As soon as I got into the town I saw it
was dead. There wasn't a manufacturing establishment in it to amount
to anything, although it had 15,000 or 16,000 inhabitants. I saw that


19a
was no place to stop, and I went to Norfolk, stopping at the Purcell
house, and registering as Warren. I didn't like that place, so my wife
says, 'Suppose we take a trip up the James River?'
     'I says, 'very well, all right.' We went up the James River with
Capt. Gifford, on the Ariel, and, arriving at Richmond, stopped at
the Ford House.  There I found the town all yellow-flagged for the
small-pox, which scared me, as I didn't want to lose my wife and
child. So we went to Lynchburg, which was a healthy place, and
rented a house there. I was quite feeble all winter and very sick. I 
stayed. there until about the 10th of May. While at Lynchburg I
noticed the assassination of Jesse James. I was taking the New
York Daily Herald at the time.  I had been out walking, and when I
got back to the house I saw my wife was excited, and she came rush-
ing to me with the paper and says,  'Jesse James is .killed.'  I
says, 'My God, where and how and who killed him?'  That was the 
3d of April.  After that I paid close attention to my papers.  I
remember reading in the New York Herald how Governor Crittenden,
when asked what hope there was for Frank James, had replied, 'where-
in as none of his friends have ever asked anything, I will not state
anythlng about it.'  That gave me hope.  I said to my wife, 'Possi-
bly if you return to Missouri and avow a willingness on my part to let
the past be buried, and that I am willing to surrender myself up, and
be tried and meet every charge they can bring against me, I may have
a fair and impartial trial.' S he went.  I left Lynchburg, May 10, 1882,
returning as I went to Nelson County, Ky.  I remained there until I
effected my surrender, and came to Missouri, October 5, 1882.  I
shipped no arms from Samuels' Station to Missouri.  As to what
Jesse James and Dick Liddell did I am not able to speak. I was not
in Missouri from 1876 to the time I passed through going from Texas
to Kentucky."
     The cross-examination of this witness may be summed up very
briefly.  He told how he went to Tennessee in 1877 in a wagon with Tyler
Burns, separating from Jesse James somewhere in Southeast Missouri
"I had about $200 when I left Nashville, and my wife had between $600
ind $700 more, the proceeds of the sale of a wagon, four mills and a
wheat drill, plows, barrows and general farm implements.I recollect
different statements made to Mr. O'Neill of the Republican, in my in-
terview with him, but then I was talking only to a reporter, whereas I
am now testifying under oath.  I had known Dick Liddell quite a num-
ber of years; had seen him at Hudspeth's before he went to Nashville.
The sorrel or strawberry roan horse I got from Liddell I rode to Mrs.
Hite's, and left at Bob Hall's."
     Here, starting from Nelson County, Ky., in October, 1881, Mr. Wal-
lace took the witness with great minuteness over his path of travel up
to his surrender, and witness gave fluent and full replies. These travels
were all subsequent to the Winston and Blue Cut robberies. Presently
Mr. Wallace elicited the fact that after leaving Nashville in March,
1881, witness was armed with two pistols, but not a Winchester,
though he had a Winchester that he carried on the Texas frontier.
Almost before any one saw it Mr. Wallace had witness in a corner.
He could not tell the name of any person in Texas outside of his sister,
her husband and neighbors who had been previously named by his sis-
ter, except that he testified to going near Denison and to near Colbet's
station, on the M. K. and T., in the Nation, to meet a friend through
whom he expected to hear touching negotiations for a surrender in
July, 1881.
     He refused to give the name of this friend, and, as he was already a
full prisoner, the Court saw no means of compelling an answer. In
the Chickasaw Nation, defendant had stayed all night with an Indian,
but could not give his name. He was of opinion, too, that he had met
a cowboy named Hines. He could not describe town, or places where
he had stopped during a ten weeks' stay. The contrast between wit-
ness' ability to describe his movements after the Winston robbery, and
his inability to tell just where he had been for the four months preced-
ing October 1, 1881, was marked in the extreme.
     At 5:50 o'clock the cross-examination ended. The defense here
rested their case, and Court adjourned for the day.


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